Messages

1

Next Dimension / Re : [ND] Next Dimension - Tome 11 (chapitre 75 à ?)

« le: 27 janvier 2017 à 12:47:25 »

Worst Sagittarius concept ever 

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 16 mars 2016 à 07:04:38 »

I'm pretty sure he meant "young" as "freshman", a saint without much experience, a person that nobody knows enough yet to know if he even has any leading abilities (and as we will see in TLC : he doesn't  )

Itia considered Hakurei to be the next Pope even before he had a Cloth (see the Extra Track "The Successor") and I don't see anyone ranting about it (maybe they will start now  ). Itia was convinced since the first time he met them that they would carry his ideals better than anyone. That's why he wanted to be involved in their training. Other Saints could have more experience in battles or be older, but they didn't had the same human qualities he saw in the twins and believed it would be the best for the Sanctuary in the future. And by training them, he knows what they're capable of in the battlefield too.

Having that in mind, Sage by that time has some years more than Hakurei when Itia took that decision and he sure is the smartest Gold Saint, he was the first one that sensed something odd in the Sanctuary and made a strategy to know who was behind that, using himself as a bait.

About his leading abilities, that is debatable. If we make a comparison between his abilities with "classic manga" Sion leading abililities, he sure proved to be at least smarter to do something to avoid being killed by Gemini and stopping the traitor

Still, Aiolos was not the main protagonist in the original manga as Sage is here in this anecdote (with Hakurei).
And in the classical hero's journey, it's very unusual that the hero receives the big reward as he has not yet even begun his main trial.

Like I said, it's as if Seiya became Sagittarius Gold Saint before the battle of 12 temples.

So the problem is that Sage is an unusual case in classical hero's journeys? Maybe it's unusual, even if you don't take this outbreak of the Pope and almost all Gold Saints brainwashed as a first important trial comparable to the 12 temples adventure that Seiya had, but I don't see a problem with unusual things.

By the way, you could say that Hakurei feels more like the main character in this Anecdote. Even if it's called "Old Twins Anecdote", it's clear that Sage had the secondary role here. The important characters had a closest relation to Hakurei, the Extra Track and epilogue were focusing on him too. Maybe because he's telling the story to Ilias and Lugonis 

3

The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 15 mars 2016 à 09:27:27 »

Du coup il vient à peine de devenir Goldsaint du Cancer et la guerre sainte n'a pas encore commencé et il est également pope?
Pourtant dans les flashbacks de l'histoire principale, il combat avec son armure du Cancer et rien ne laisse présumer qu'il a déjà ce titre (lorsqu'on le voit avec son frère lors du flashback avec Athéna dans l'OVA, par exemple)

So? There was never said when he was named Pope, you assumed it was after the Holy War, even if there was never a Pope figure in any of those flashbacks either. Sage was shown a couple of times close to Athena, anime and manga.

Et on en déjà discuté, mais rien n'a jamais été dit quant au fait qu'un Pope est interdit de combattre avec sa Cloth ou perde son titre de Gold en étant nommé.

Sage was wearing his Cloth even when he found Manigoldo. Shion in his Anecdote too, 14 years after the Holy War. Why would anyone lose his Cloth? They are until they have a successor.

On a donc un jeune Saint d'or qui est également Pope

Young? Sage is 17 years old. Aiolos and Saga were 14 and 15, Shion was 18.

Là, on a un gars encore relativement newbie qui gagne le jackpot avant même la grosse boucherie.

I think some people didn't understand how Sage became Pope. That was not "luck" or just because he touch the mask, Athena and Kjrest plan was to give him the title. They use the helmet as a way to reach him, Hakurei was a decoy to distract Itia and then Sage moved "inconsciously" to it and received the right to be the Pope thanks to Athena.

It was not luck, was all part of Athena and Kjrest strategy. Maybe we should wait for the script and/or images before jumping to conclusions.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 22 février 2016 à 23:26:33 »

Nan mais 1990, c'est Kuru qu'a fumé 
Étant donné que y'a 243 ans entre la Guerre Sainte de TLC et le Kurumanga ( cf. chapitre bonus du vol. 25 "243 ans plus tard" ), et que rien n'indique que le nombre d'années entre chaque Guerre Sainte soit fixe, impossible de situer précisément si ça se passe au XVème ou XVIème siècle, effectivement 

Actually is XV century. In Sion Anecdote, Hakurei stated that "it has been 250 years" since Avenir's death. That Anecdote is placed 5 years before the Holy War and we know that Avenir was sended there after the events told in the Old Twins Anecdote, so the past holy war was aproximately 255 year ago at least, could be more if Hakurei was rounding the number.

Having that in mind, the years said in the Old Twins Anecdote could help to place it better in the timeline. The first chapter is said to be 20 years before the Holy War, that means the "240 years ago" from the same chapter counts from the point when Hakurei starts the storytelling and not from the XVIII century Holy War. Also that's why more than 10 years after that chapter Hakurei says "250 years ago" when he speaks about Avenir's death.

So make it 255/260 years ago and it would be placed in the year 1488/1483 (original date 1986) or 1492/1487 (ND retcon date).

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The Lost Canvas / Re : Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 12 février 2016 à 23:18:27 »

P.S.: J'aime l'idée de la Gold Cloth du Bélier qui "s'enténèbre". Ça reprend ce qu'on peut deviner dans LoS

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Saga Bi-goût

ou ce qu'on observe dans G Assassin

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shura de Baphomet

As a matter of fact, Teshirogi did that first with the three Silver Saints in chapter 7.

It's clear that this anecdote has three main themes: the mortality of humans, the search for peace and the influence of Gods. From the start, Zaphiri was impulsed by the feeling that he would be old before he could help in the Holy War, since Athena wasn't born yet, and he tried to use the power of Poseidon to bring peace on his own.

Then when Gateguard speaks about Itia, he says that he became the most perfect human it can be to preserve a fragile peace that other humans always destroy, that Gods abandon them because they're evil and stupid fighting each other. He hates humans and is convinced that they cannot achieve peace. Plus Itia says that he can't trust the world to the humans that will grow old because that way nothing is gonna change. Itia is like Zaphiri: a desperate human that will die without achieving real peace, a human that needs the power of a God to do that.

Finally Kjrest and Garnet. Tired of the fragile peace that humans can achieve, tired of them fighting wars that he calls "ephemeral dreams", tired of Gods using humans as their pawns. He's not that different from Itia, he wanted the same thing with only one difference: the power of the Gods. He didn't wanted Gods to play with them anymore (I'm sure we will see in this Anecdote some of that) and of course using the power of the Gods was not on the table either, so what was the solution to that? Being inmortal. Garnet had the ability to do that. How to reach peace without the power of the Gods? How could they stop humans from fighting each other? With Garnet's voice. That was his answer and Degel proved him wrong by defeating him.

The answer will be the one that Sage and Hakurei will give: keep fighting always for the next generations and transmit all those feelings to them.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 06 février 2016 à 09:09:18 »

Bah, si on se réfère au canon Kuru ( à savoir ND) on sait désormais que Dokho, c'est au Sanctuaire qu'il a obtenu son armure d'or, direct des mains du Pope.

But there's no evidence in ND that Dōko trained elsewhere than the Sanctuary alongside his friends. He was shown even at his childhood there, when they were apprentices. I think Kurumada just forgot about that info and now he always trained in the Sanctuary. Is a retcon at least we can see him training at Lüshan sometime, every other thing is just an assumption or fan theories.


So there's the Canes Venatici Saint, Teshirogi didn't forget him. But is even less important than the Musca Saint  Would be nice to see them fight, even if they can't cause severe damage.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 14 janvier 2016 à 03:13:50 »

I've checked the previous chapters, when Krest is talking the bubbles are the same all along.

That what I meant. "It's the projection. The "speech bubble" doesn't have lines". The speech bubbles are useful to know the context of the speaker, even if it's calm or angry.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 13 janvier 2016 à 08:56:15 »

Krest c'est toujours pas clair si c'est le vieux qui se projette en version jeune (normalement oui), ou s'il est bien là, encore jeune sans quo'on sache trop pourquoi

It's the projection. The "speech bubble" doesn't have lines.


I think Papillon will show. If we consider the first chapter, probably Itia did what Zaphiri was going to do (with Poseidon) and tried to use Hades power to accomplish his goal. And probably that will have consecuences.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 08 janvier 2016 à 05:54:32 »

I didn't remember Avido doing it. It's when he goes to the Pope's palace ?

Yes. When he attacks Avido's image you can see the souls he used:

I don't think Kiki created this illusion. I think this hallucination from Seiya was a combination of Seiya's desire to see Shiryu alive and the Pegasus Cloth containing Shiryu's blood and thus "soul" (like Seiya says after when fighting Black Pegasus).

But Kiki stated that he delivered the Pegasus Cloth when he tried to walk away with the Pandora Box and Shun stopped him. Before that Seiya was asking himself if it was really Shiryu's soul and then the box moved alone, revealing that Kiki was after that.

Even if you don't like that, you have other examples like Mū fooling the Silver Saints when he changed the appearance of the Black Saints, or Marin against Moses creating false images of her to trick him (twice).

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 06 janvier 2016 à 01:33:30 »

* Réflexion n°1 : à votre avis, comment fonctionne le schmilblick de Sage qui consiste à utiliser des âmes pour créer une illusion de lui-même et qui lui permet de tromper Francisca ? (réponse autre que TGCM souhaitée, sinon s'abstenir ) Je peux concevoir qu'une concentration d'âmes puisse simuler une présence (voire Sage laisse un petit bout de lui-même dans le mix pour relever l'appât); mais son apparence visuelle ?

It's not new, Avido did the same in Cancer Anecdote, when he talks with Hakurei using souls with his shape and Hakurei tries to hit him. And for the case, it's like making an illusion over a lot of souls instead of a simple illusion, like Kiki did when he delivered the Cloth to Seiya and created a Shiryu image, but with souls hidden.

* Réflexion n°2 : lorsque Shiori dessine le Sekishiki Tenryô Ha contre Hypnos, seuls 4 Golds (Bélier, Taureau, Cancer, Poissons) sur 12 sont présents. Bien sûr, il y a l'aspect "pas la place de mettre tout le monde" et "représentation des Saints dans leur hétérogénéité" (pour une fois). D'un autre côté, Krest et le probable Itia de la Balance ne sont pas de cette génération, donc quelque part, il y a une certaine logique à ne pas les voir. Du coup, pensez-vous que les 6 autres signes puissent également être des survivants de 13XX ? Bien sûr, Shiori n'avait pas forcément tout cela en tête à l'époque et ça ferait également beaucoup de survivants (roxxor) d'une ère précédente. Mais après tout, pourquoi pas ? Qu'est-ce qui l'interdit fondamentalement ? Pourquoi le résultat devrait toujours être super étriqué ?

That would mean a lot of Misophetamenos  At least to be at full potential, they should be young Saints. But I think that Itia is the only partner that Krest has from the previous war.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 18 décembre 2015 à 05:43:08 »

Don't know what's the problem. First of all that's a Holy Fire given to Altar from mythological times, not ordinary flames. If the problem is the advantage of a Silver Saint over others, there's a Silver Saint that can see the future (something that even Athena can't do) and has healing powers, for example. If the problem is about the privation of the Cosmo, Perseus Algol could deprived a Saint from everything with only showing his shield... movement, senses, will, Cosmos, thoughts, everything, and without anything "holy" from mythological times.

If I have to analyze it, I think those flames instead of giving a life to the Goddess, it burns the Cosmos of the Saint as an offer to her and the Sanctuary. We know that even if the Cosmos is something they have to cultivate, the Saints live under the influence of a Constellation that determines the destiny of that Saint and even the vital points in their bodies.

N'oublions pas que Teshi, c'est quand même la reine des concepts bizarroïdes, comme par exemple le 8ème sens qui permet à Ziziphe de foutre une trempe à Éaque, alors qu'à l'origine ça permet juste de se balader tranquillou dans le Meikai sans être soumis à la volonté d'Hadès

But Sisyphos reached the 8th sense by burning his Cosmos after losing his sight. The 8th sense is not a boost of power, by boosting their power they can reach the 8th sense. I think that's a common misunderstanding of the situation, but even Sisyphos explained it clearly: "losing my sight heightens my other senses, so that during this moment of dispair... I can go past the sixth sense, take the seventh sense to its limit... and REACH something beyond them". Don't know why all people is confused about this, the Bronze Saints did the same to reach it for a moment.

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Next Dimension / Re : [ND] Next Dimension - Tome 10 ! Reprise en automne !

« le: 22 novembre 2015 à 06:17:49 »

Ok tu n'aimes pas ND ni ce que Kuru fait et tu lui préfères TLC, entre nous je vois pas trop ce que j'aurais à redire là dessus ...
Par contre tu parles de StS comme d'un manga épique tout le long de son histoire et là clairement tu as loupé plusieurs éléments du Kurumanga, car certains protagonistes sont vraiment ridicules et les situations qui suivent leur apparition peuvent prêter à sourire clairement ! Je prendrai juste l'exemple de Jamian qui
_se fait transporter par des corbeaux
_les appellent mes frères
_a une tronche en biais et une démarche ridicule
_dont l'attaque consiste à recouvrir ses adversaires de plumes noires
_et se voit retourner au final ses propres frères contre lui dans une scène assez pathétique pour lui..

Le tout se passe tome 6, au tout début du manga donc, et toi tu viens nous dire que le Kurumanga c'est du 100% épique, sérieux, solennel ! Bah on a pas les mêmes définitions des mots alors...

A l'inverse si tu trouves épique le fait qu'un être humain, aussi badass soit-il, puisse vivre et combattre sans cœur et bien laisse moi te dire que moi je trouve ça ridicule ! Et ce infiniment plus qu'un DT, qui est clairement ridicule certes, mais qui l'est voulu et assumé comme tel par Kuru.
Et qui n'est pas un cas isolé dans son univers, désolé de te l'apprendre..

First of all, I never said "100% serious", there are 3 o 4 moments of relax with grotesque or silly humor, like farts or sneezings. It's not the same that making an entire major character (including the "fights" where he's involved) a joke, going up to stairs as a ball-man, giving the final blow to one of the three Underworld Judges with a silly joke technique (without Cloth), killing one of the Specters with his butt, etc. The manga was epic because the humor didn't stepped in front of the fights, characters and situations, it was a small resource he used sometimes with some characters, you didn't had ridiculous deaths with butts or a man that survived all twisted up and like a happy bouncing ball with no problem at all... Luckily, seeing the kind of "humor" Kurumada manages...

Now, Jamian is not a pathetic nor comedy character. The anime made him look that way, but in the manga he's nothing like that, not even the coward we saw in the anime, he was going to attack Saori after seeing her powers and didn't step back against Ikki even sensing his cosmo. You think he is ridiculous for his ability? I don't see much difference with a living chain that generates electricity or throwing flowers with different effects, but all those things have one thing in common: were not created to make you laugh or to make the characters funny, are part of the abilities that the author thought for them. Subjectively I can think something is ridiculous, objectively that was not created with that goal.

Don't know if I can talk about LC here, it's not the topic, but since you mention it: you can think that's ridiculous, it's your opinion, I don't share it since we have Orpheé that was pierced through his chest (where the heart is, by the way) and was still alive and fighting, only difference is that one is a lot more graphic that the other, would be hypocritical if you say one is "ridiculous" and the other is not. Nevertheless, that's only a resource to show the determination of the character, like Orpheé or Shijima having for hours a flower that supposedly drains all the blood from his heart and was still alive and fighting. Personally I think those are epic moments when a character surpasses the limits of his body and soul to accomplish a goal, and I'm sure that's the intention of the authors. It's a shame some people don't see it that way.

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Next Dimension / Re : [ND] Next Dimension - Tome 10 ! Reprise en automne !

« le: 21 novembre 2015 à 00:18:23 »

Bof, une nouvelle fois je vois pas trop le rapport entre ce qui aurait été fait/imaginé par des fans et ce que l'auteur veut et aurait le droit de faire ! C'est son une univers et il le développe comme il l'entend sans avoir à prendre en considération ce qui a pu être fait à côté ...
Pour l'idée en elle-même, un Verseau ressemblant à la mère de Hyoga, même propos ! Tant qu'on a pas vu le résultat je vois pas trop en quoi on pourrait avancer que c'était une bonne ou une mauvaise idée..

With the logic "it's his universe and he develops it as he wishes" then you will accept everything without any objection. If Seiya transforms itself into a talking potato that shoots rainbows from his eyes and has the magic ability to bring back to life the 12 Gold Saints transformed into girls, then you will say "it's his universe". Kind of "do whatever you want, I will never dislike what you throw to me"...

Of course Kurumada doesn't have to consider what's done, but he should have the originality and the mind to be above fan thoughts and fanfics, to make unexpected plots. After 10 years, clearly he is not. Like you said he IS the author, so I expect something more from him, not the childish piece of *ND* he is doing 

Enfin je préfère encore 1000 fois un bon DT, qu'un insipide et insupportable Sisyphe par exemple ! Comme quoi pour certains ce que fait Kurumada niveau gold ça peut encore plaire !

I respect your opinion. Saint Seiya is (or was) an epic manga with solemn characters and serious fights, not a low-class comedy. Sisyphos is not that different from other Saints you sure like from the manga, the only difference is that he has a well developed past and personality. Maybe that's what makes him "dull and unbearable" to some people 

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Next Dimension / Re : [ND] Next Dimension - Tome 10 ! Reprise en automne !

« le: 19 novembre 2015 à 21:02:06 »

What's the problem with calling a bad fanfic the idea of Hyoga facing a Gold Saint casually named/looking like his mother? It's something I could expect from a fanboy, not from the original author. I hope the spoilers to be false.

Some people choose to wait and see how he will manage it, but honestly looking to the other Gold Saints he has created so far and after almost 10 years of nothing my expectations for a good development are very low.

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Next Dimension / Re : [ND] Next Dimension - Tome 10 ! Reprise en automne !

« le: 19 novembre 2015 à 04:08:54 »

I don't doubt this could be real... Kuru is the fanfic master...

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 13 novembre 2015 à 22:14:33 »

He looks like Hui for me.


Nice mythological references. Now I want more 

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 10 novembre 2015 à 10:53:06 »

That's an option but I think they will want to squeeze the orange until the pips squeak 

Seeing that the fight between Hakurei and Gateguard has not ended yet + we don't know even who is the mastermind behind all this + we don't know why Athena traveled to Blue Graad + the other Gold Saints were brainwashed too and they must die or be released from that, a second volume would be a reasonable option to have a good ending for this.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 10 novembre 2015 à 10:11:29 »

Sounds like a good chapter. New techniques are refreshing and a cannon-fodder Silver Saint like Sagitta doing something useful too

In the case of Rasgado Anecdote each chapter had less pages than a regular one, right? Like 40 exactly and normal chapters had 44/46 pages, that way they did it a 5 chapter Anecdote. So far we have Chapter 1 with 46 pages; Chapter 2 with 44; and Chapter 3 with 46. That means we probably will have a second volume and not only one chapter more, right?

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The Lost Canvas / Re : Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 10 novembre 2015 à 06:12:47 »

Thanks.

Bon, si on se fie à l'illustration de la page 5, les Golds seraient presque au complet à cette époque.... (manque la Balance sur le dessin... Pope Itia ? )

Edit : ah, au temps pour moi, y a une Balance à côté de Gateguard et Saga sur la page 26.....

But in the page 26 you can see all 12 Gold Saints, including Cáncer Sage and Aquarius Krest. In page 5, Sage is talking about the Gold Saints that they will have to face if they go to the Sanctuary, so he isn't counting Krest and himself... plus Libra, so there's a chance for Itia there.

I really hope we can know all of them. Seems it's going to have at least 2 volumes.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 10 octobre 2015 à 23:22:29 »

Pov silvers, encore de la chair à canon. Par contre j'essaye de les identifier mais j'ai un peu de mal avec cette taille  au pif je dirais de gauche à droite : Centaure, Mouche, Flèche et un que j'arrive pas à identifier.

Judging by the parts of the arms and legs, he's the Canes Venatici Saint.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 07 octobre 2015 à 22:21:07 »

And seems the Pope's name is "Itia"...

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 07 octobre 2015 à 20:54:22 »

There's a summary already, I think:

ではバレ投下します つたない文章ですがお付き合いください

老双子編第3話「裏切者」
教皇の死を感じた3人 中でもクレストは長年の戦友の死にショックは大きいようだ
セージは教皇の間へ向かおうとするが教皇代理である祭壇星座を死地へ行かせるわけにはいかないとハクレイに止められる
双子たちはかつて教皇イティアとの出会いを回想し彼の死を悔やむのだった
ハクレイは教皇の意志を継ぐべく洗脳されていない聖闘士と結託して反撃を誓う
アテナはブルーグラードに会談へ行っており無事のようだがクレストは念のため彼女の護衛へ向い聖域を離れることになる
その頃、双子が生きていることを感じ取ったゲートガードは白銀の分際で黄金に逆らおうとするハクレイに敵意をむき出しにする
白銀聖闘士の宿舎へ向かった双子たちだが宿舎は燃えており2人は分断されセージは洗脳された牡牛座の黄金聖闘士フランキスカと戦うことになる
一方、ハクレイは洗脳されていた白銀を積尸気冥界波で支配から解放するが彼の前にゲートガードが現れ教皇を殺したことを告白
尊敬する教皇イティアの代理がハクレイであることが許せないゲートガードはイティアの理想である平和を実現するのは我々だと宣戦布告
悲しき聖戦が加速するッ！

巻末コメント
ソルトレイクのコミコンに行って参りました！凄い熱気！行って良かった！


ゲートガードは尊敬する教皇の理想とする平和のために彼を殺したという複雑な感情が入り混じったキャラのようだ
これは老双子編は１巻で終わりそうもないね
あとてよぎんはアメコミ映画好き過ぎるだろ…

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 04 octobre 2015 à 12:29:03 »

Only this fandom can find yaoi in brotherly bonds  Always liked the old brothers and all the interactions between them, showing how Hakurei acts following his heart and Sage always uses his brain (like the time that Tenma was sent to prison). Even as kids, one's resolution is thinking about the whole situation and the other is convinced by the feelings.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 14 septembre 2015 à 10:20:16 »

Could be a Specter helped by the power of the Twin Gods. Maybe this is the trap Sage and Hakurei were talking about in the manga.

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The Lost Canvas / Re : [TLC] Old Twins Gaiden (août 2015)

« le: 13 septembre 2015 à 11:57:49 »

If she wants to make a volume for each Gold they have to face, I will not complain